Best Glamping near New Market, VA

This is a glamping site! coin operated showers, camp store open during the day. This is a much bigger campsite than the others in shenandoah and you should reserve spots a week or more in advance. This site generally has more RVs and people than the others.

had to stay here for a climbing trip in the offseason when other sites in the park were closed. definitely glamping with people all around. seems like a fun time for a family.

they have a pool, pillow trampoline, playground, basketball court..

drinking water, showers and flush toilets are available if you're tent camping. there are also cabins and rv spots available.

We used this in the offseason as is was one of the only ones in the area that stays open for most of the year. This is not a primitive/secluded campground if you are looking to get away and spend some time in nature. It would make a great group/family glamping campsite as is has all of the amenities, including playgrounds, a pond with a "beach" and golf cart rentals to get around.

This campground is very very popular and the sites are very close together so it’s a bit overwhelming. Definitely avoid major holidays if you camp to get away from it all. But it’s perfect if you like glamping. You’ll never be at a loss for things to do: hiking, birding, Ranger-led programs, blueberry picking in July, and a Junior Ranger patch program for kids. The wayside has a sit down full service restaurant plus the most heavenly homemade blackberry ice cream. Hot showers are available ($1.50 for 5 minutes so bring quarters) and bathrooms are always close by.

I have to give Big Meadows 4 stars simply because it’s so crowded and busy.

We just visited the park this week. Wow what a beautiful state park. Very well up kept, clean and amazingly friendly rangers. We rented a Yurt number 2. In my opinion it has the best location of the 3 Turks they have. It’s it the woods close to a boat landing you can see a bit of the river. In the fall or spring I’m sure the view is amazing. The yurt was clean and simple. Surrounded by a amazing deck with 4 rocking chairs and a picnic table on it. Down below you have a fire pit, a grill and an additional picnic table. Yurt 1 is right next door if you have a larger group that would be perfect. The one we stayed in sleeps 4 comfortably. The park has a huge network of hiking and bike paths all very well maintained. The river water is so clear you can see the bottom. The only only down side is you can not drive your car up to the yurt. But they offer little carts to load your things in and pull. Yurt 2 is the farthest away from the parking area, but well worth it.

We stayed in a yurt, and I’m gonna let the photos do most of the talking👌🏼🛖

We got here super late and we’re still able to check in because they’re at the desk 24/7.

Yurt has a full kitchen and bath. Coffee, popcorn, toiletries, linens provided.

Such a sweet little spot tucked outside of the Blue Ridge Mountains.

Lovely time in the yurt! Walked around the property and saw the horses and checked out the primitive sites.

We have stayed at this campground many times! It is our favorite! The scenery is fantastic and at the foot of Shenandoah National Park. The sites are large and there is both sun and shade. Upper bathroom is so-so but there is a new one on the lower level that’s great. There are yurts to rent also!

Beautiful park with over 1,600 acres and 5.6 miles of river frontage. Lots of areas to access the river throughout, several picnic shelters, riverside picnic area, canoe launch with a good amount of parking, group campground, visitor center/store, bathhouses with hot showers, and cool trails (24 miles, hiking/biking/horses). Tent + RV sites (with water/electric options), cabins, and yurts available. There is nowhere to dump your trash here so you’ll have to pack it out.

Usually go camping with a Little Guy teardrop trailer, but with the current state of the country, didn’t feel comfortable with sharing bathroom facilities. We booked Yurt #1. It was fantastic. The place was spotless, well equipped kitchenette, grill, fire pit, comfortable beds. We loved our neighbors the sheep, goats and llamas. Checking in was easy, with the keys and map at the office. Park was clean and well maintained. Dog park is great. Wonderful way to start coming out of quarantine. Great hiking nearby.

We’ve come to this campground twice: Once just our family of four and another time with my in-laws. This park is nice and secluded with a number of family friendly hikes. Facilities are clean with plenty of wood to buy and carts to help transport supplies from the parking lot to the camp sites. We recommend renting the yurts which were perfect for our in laws. They were just a few steps away from our camp site in a more comfortable setting. We foresee coming to this park many times over the coming years. It’s the quintessential car camping experience.

This resort is 5 Star in amenities. Indoor pool in the lodge, restaurant, outdoor pool connected to the indoor one. Another outdoor pool area by the general store (wasn't open yet) has a large pool and kids pool. The activities center has things going on every day. They also have a large room with a large screen that you can reserve to watch movies. There is a stable for horse riding. Also, there's miniature golf. They have cabins, yurts,and a tree house for rent. The laundry is free. Our campsite, lowest level, has a table with four chairs, two Adirondack chairs, and a propane grill. The higher level has an outdoor sink. The top level has a jacuzzi. The grounds are well designed for landscaping and kept trimmed. Now, for the cons. Our back- in site isn't level. We were told that is by design so water will flow off. Maybe. Our loop doesn't have any bathhouse, while the one next door has two. We did take a shortcut that went over a clay hill. Probably not safe if it's raining. The shower looks nice. Would stay drier if people would put the curtain inside the barrier. Shelves and benches in the showers are nice. Water pressure is mediocre to good. We're still waiting for hot water. I do say the help keeps it clean. There are sanitizer bottles left in the bathrooms and showers. Overall, it is a nice place to sit and relax.

When I was traveling though this section of Virginia I stumbled upon this KOA, and I must say it is very different than any KOA I have visited. Typically amenities are nice and the places are well maintained in KOA standard, but this one had something which set it apart from others, its remote country feel and setting.

From camp you had magnificent views of rolling green hills and mountains in the distance. The feel of the campground was that of a country cottage and the friendly owners echoed the same hometown feel. This did not feel like a chain, it didn't feel like a private owner who had some land and used it as an after thought to generate some money, instead it felt like someone was welcoming you to stay with them at a B&B of sorts designed for RV Campers. I know that sounds weird, but unlike a lot of campgrounds the vibe f this one is just a little different.

There were 2 pools (open seasonally), a very well maintained bath house, a dog park area, ping pong, a play area, even a yurt for something a bit different and all with amazing views of the Blue Ridge Mountains.

The tent area is divided into two sections with their own private parking. The amazing green grass of this area, even late into summer made for soft padded sites and made me feel comfortable enough that I didn't feel the need to wear shoes, something which I always feel like I need to do at a campsite. That feeling in itself set this campground apart, it just felt so homey and clean and well maintained enough that I could literally kick my shoes off and enjoy.

I opted for a non-electric site which was $34, basically because I liked the soft padded grass, the electric hook up deluxe sites are $39 and have a gravel pad, but since I could get that anywhere I wanted the feel of being closer to the actual ground. The other difference between the two sites were the covers which rest over the gravel sites which you can add an additional tarp to for shade. Otherwise sites are equally put together with picnic tables and fire rings.

When I visited it was on a weekday and while there were some people staying on the RV side I had the tent area to myself, it was quiet at night in my little corner of camp and I could walk out a bit from my site and see the entire night sky which was amazing!

The experience of staying at this camp was very pleasant and I would recommend it again, the only reason it didn't have 5 stars was the price itself was a bit higher than other accommodations in the area. I feel like this was fair considering the accommodations, however to someone passing by this could also be something which could be a deterrent from stay here.

TIPS:

• Check online for seasonal pool closures if you are planning on taking a dip, if you come during the season which it is closed there are still plenty of things to do so don't worry.
• Nearby are a Dukies of Hazard themed spot and also Luray Caverns which is known for its musical stalactites and stalagmites, it is a must see!!!

Shenandoah River State Park is located right on the Shenandoah River in northern Virginia. It is just a short drive from the northern section of Shenandoah River National Park and includes lots of hiking trails, a few canoe launches, gorgeous views, and nature center, and lots of different camping options. The park encompasses more than 1600 acres and includes 5.2 miles of pristine shoreline.

Campground Review

I stopped at Shenandoah River State Park on a two-week road trip from Vermont to Alabama. I had been traveling for a few days when I stopped here, and I did not make reservations in advance for a Thursday night in May. I arrived at about 3 pm and popped into the visitor center to ask about my options for camping for the night. Turns out that campers have a lot of choices here.

Camping options include huge RV sites with water and electricity hook-ups, small camping cabins, yurts, and large cottages with separate bedrooms, bathrooms, full kitchens, and air conditioning, which I guess isn’t really camping at all. The last option, and the one I chose, is “primitive” camping, which are large, private tent sites along the river. The only thing primitive about them is that they have no vehicle access. You park your car in a lot nearby and truck your stuff out to your campsite.

These primitive sites have access to a large bathhouse with private showers, as well as grungy pit toilets that are a bit closer to many of the sites. The campsites have a fire pit, lantern pole, and picnic table, and some have room for several tents. A few of the sites are right on the Shenandoah River, with incredible views. My site, #3 had a river view but was set back a bit from the banks. All of the sites are wooded and quiet.

There are carts available at the parking area for lugging your stuff out to your site, and there is also a small shed with firewood that you can purchase for $6 a bundle. The rangers come through every so often and are incredibly friendly and knowledgable about the area. I learned that there are copperheads within the park, as well as huge bees that look menacing but are pretty harmless. Bears also frequent the park, so it is very important to pack away your food in your car or your bear-proof cooler. Don’t have a bear-proof cooler? Check out the RovR Rollr 60 below.

This was a clean, quiet campground, with beautiful hiking trails and great river access. The cost for a primitive campsite was $36, which I thought was a bit pricey. It is cheaper for Virginia residents.

It may get really busy on summer weekends, but I only saw a handful of people during my visit. There is a privately run ziplining course within the park, and a local outfitter does paddling trips that begin up-river and include class I and II rapids. All-in-all, I give Shenandoah River State Park 4 stars for their primitive campsites, and I can’t wait to come back to stay in a yurt.

RovR RollR 60 Review:

As a ranger for The Dyrt, I am occasionally given products to test and review on my camping adventures. During this trip, I was thrilled to test out the RovR Rollr 60 cooler. The Rovr was recently ranked #1 for ice retention by Outside Magazine, so I was excited to use it for a mega road trip where I knew I wouldn’t be able to restock it with ice every day. Plus, I was carting large quantities of Vermont beer to my family in Alabama, and warm beer is really lame.

The RovR Rollr is a “rotomolded cooler,” which basically means that it has a consistent wall thickness and two full inches of foam insulation to keep the insides frosty for a lot longer than traditional coolers. They are also made with heavier, more durable plastics that ensure that they last longer than other types of coolers.

The downside to the RovR Rollr, and all high-end rotomolded coolers, is that they are quite a bit heavier than their competitors. Fortunately, the RovR Rollr line includes incredibly rugged tires that make it easy to maneuver just about anywhere. I did have trouble lifting it in and out of my car and dragging it up a full flight of stairs, but because of the tires and the sturdy handle, my issues were minimal.

RovR Rollr 60 Features:

This cooler is really big and holds 60 quarts of food, beverages, and ice. It is a workhorse, and can definitely keep enough food and drink cold for a long weekend or more. The RovR Rollr includes a removable plastic bin that secures snuggly into the cooler to keep your food dry, but still nice and cold. You fill this bin with your eggs, meats, and veggies, and then pour the ice into the cooler on top of your beverages. This system is so great — no more fishing for Hershey bars when your cooler turns into a lake.

The RovR website mentions that the RovR Rollr will give you 10 days of ice retention if you follow some recommended steps, which includes prechilling everything, keeping the cooler full, and keeping it out of full sun. I could do none of these things, but keeping the cooler in the back of my car (in the sun), half full, and not prechilling anything, the ice lasted a good 4 days before needing to be replaced.

There is a handy valve to release excess water, and the dual-grip handle is made of aluminum for easy pushing and pulling. The latches are made of sturdy rubber and the lid is fitted with an airtight gasket, making it entirely bearproof. The cooler comes with a 5-year warranty, and many of the parts can be removed and replaced if necessary.

The RovR Rollr comes with a removable, foldable wagon bin that secures firmly to the top of the cooler for easy transport. I kept dry goods in here that didn’t need to be cold - fruit, cereal, trail mix, peanut butter, etc.

Optional Add-Ons

For this particular adventure, I just got the cooler and the wagon bin that fits on top, but there are a bunch of optional features that would make the RovR even more versatile. These include an attachable cutting board, drink holders, an umbrella holder, and a bike kit for pulling the cooler behind your bike.

Bottom Line

The RovR Rollr 60 is obviously a high-end cooler with a high-end price tag, but the quality is obvious from the very first use. This is an investment for sure, but totally worth it. My biggest complaint is that it is heavy and a bit unwieldy for one person to maneuver. And to be fair, this is a big cooler that is not meant to be used by one person. I was impressed with the rugged tires, the overall design, and its ability to keep stuff cold and dry and would love to invest in a smaller model for smaller adventures.

Virginia has the best state park campgrounds. Water and electric. Large sites. The bathrooms are clean with separate shower rooms. Nice hiking in the park. Near SNP. Responsive and friendly rangers.

Virginia has some of the best state parks, including water and electric at sites. This park has some good hiking and river access. No play ground for kids, but plenty of other outdoors.

Also in the time of crowding, I always find a couple sites open here..

I grew up going to this campground. It's located in Gordonsville, Virginia. There's not much to do in the area, but the campground itself is nice.

There is a nice pool, arcade, camp store, horse riding, and the camp sites are pretty nice.

All around good place to camp.

Great views of the blue ridge mountains with many river access points. The Virginia Canopy Tour is fun. We camped with our pop-up in the RV section. Sites were spacious and the bathhouse clean. We checked out an adventure pack from the visitors center and hiked the River Trail, thus our son became a junior ranger. Tent sites, RV sites, camping cabins and large cabins all available. Firewood for sale in the park. We’ll be back! More trails to hike!

We stayed at this KOA on our way to Virginia Beach but wanted to a day in Shenandoah National Park.  We didn't do reservations because they wanted us to pay for the entire weekend when we just wanted to stay one night.  But we took a chance and it paid off.  This campground is tucked in the Shenandoah valley...mountains on both sides and nestled next to a farm.  The sites are big and ours backedup to a big field - great for the kids to run.  Nice and quiet campground and clean bathrooms.  The pool was clean and refreshing - so thankful for that because it was in the upper 90s the day we were there.  Great place to stay and wish we had longer.

I really love this campground. The river sites are worth the few extra bucks, but they book up fast. You have to call in your reservations - can’t book online. The campground itself is laid out nicely with several waterfront sites (some on the banks with no way to get into the river, others with acceptable river access). There are also overflow sites and those really aren’t bad (I’d avoid overflow #3 due to the proximity of portapotties). Most, if not all, sites have a fire ring and picnic table.

If I wasn’t camping on a weekend, I’d definitely choose site 15. The site is large, shaded, private, and has nice river access for putting in boats; however, because of the river access and the fact that it’s the northernmost stop before passing the campground from the river, there is a good chance you will have people hopping off at your campsite (consider that this might happen at any of the riverside sites that have even the slightest bit of river access). It seems like it could be pretty annoying, considering there’s a designated spot to put in and take out at the campground between sites 32 and 33.

This visit we stayed at site 42 which was waterfront but on a high bank, so we didn’t have river access - but that wasn’t an issue for us. There is a big tree blocking a bit of the river view, but still a beautiful site. My neighbors at site #43 had people getting off the river at their site constantly. They were visibly annoyed.

Site #40 is one that I would not recommend. It only rained for a couple of hours and the little creek flooded…. and this site is right on the creek. It seems like it stayed pretty wet the whole weekend, which during summer months can be miserable with the bugs and humidity. Also, it’s directly across the street from the portapotties.

Site 41 is nice and has a somewhat steep river access. It was roped off for social distancing the weekend we went, so we took advantage of the river access since no one would be camping at this site. The current can be strong, so be mindful of the river level.

There is a designated boat launch at the campground (really steep when you get to the river so I wouldn’t back a vehicle all the way to the river). 37a is river access as well. Sites 31 and 32 (despite being near the campground’s public river access) look large and private. Both riverside.

There is a designated footpath from the campground to the public boat launch next door. It’s fenced off, so despite how it looks, you aren’t walking through anyone’s campsite. That’s the best place to put in with tubes and kayaks/canoes because you aren’t trying to launch from a riverbank as you would at your campsite. It’s also significantly calmer water-wise. Lots of parking.

The campground sells ice, wood, and a handful of miscellaneous camp supplies in their office (fire starters, bug spray, sunscreen, graham crackers, candy…. the basics). There are portajohns throughout the campground and 6 private showers w/hot water, sinks, and toilets; these are located directly behind the camp store (same building). The bathhouses were all very clean when I went. The portapotty by our site got significantly worse throughout the weekend and by Sunday morning we stopped using it. The toilet paper ran out and the handwashing station ran out of soap and water which was disappointing, esp. due to the pandemic. Random note: the restrooms (by the office) do have electrical outlets if you need a quick cell phone charge.

Note: There is absolutely no Verizon service here (ATT seems to work pretty well). You’ll have to drive 10-15 in either direction on Rt. 211 before you can catch a signal.

The campground offers cabins, RV sites, and primitive tent camping. No yurts. Elec/water sites available. Trash goes in the back of a dump truck near the office/camp store. There’s a dump station for RVs and non-potable water. Slop sink near the restrooms by the office. Staff was amazing and super helpful. Police patrol at night to enforce quiet hours. Definitely coming back to stay at site 15, 31, 32, and plan to do another 7-8 mile paddle.

🛶🛶 Paddling/Floating the Shenandoah 🛶🛶

At the time we visited, there were no shuttles (nor rentals) for kayaking/canoeing/tubing, so we brought our own boats and floats. You obviously will need two cars or someone to drop you off before or pick you up after your float. A nice chill float would be from the campground to Shenandoah River State Park (around three miles - amount of time of float is dependent on how high the river is). There, you’d hop out at the park’s canoe launch where your 2nd vehicle is waiting in a nearby lot 👍🏻 *The only downfall to this is: you have to pay for park entry per vehicle at $10/car. *REI members can use a store receipt as a free day pass. 

A longer (7-8 mile), less expensive float would entail driving about 7.5 miles north to Gooney Creek (take a left off 211) and parking your boat pick-up vehicle at the boat ramp (if no luck there, ask the folks at Gooney Greek Campground if you can pay to park for the day (it’s an 8 minute walk or so from the public boat ramp).

*We had some locals tell us of a boat ramp down a nearby windy dirt road (which would have put us south of the campground paddling north so you exit at the campground) but that particular boat ramp has NO PARKING so you’d need to be dropped off. It’s also very steep and incredibly dangerous after a heavy rain, as the ditches wash out and make it nearly impossible to pass other vehicles coming the opposite direction. We had a bit of a scare when one of our tires slipped off the road when trying to pass someone coming from the other direction.

Campground Review: Canaan Valley State Park and Resort, Davis, West Virginia

The Canaan Valley State Park and Resort is situated in a very popular outdoor activity area...for every season. Winter brings copious snowfall and the skiing here draws thousands...downhill and XC. The summer sees backpackers, hikers, mountain bikers, gravel grinders, car-campers and RVers. Not only do you have hiking trails here on the State Park location...you can drive up to the nearby Dolly Sods Wilderness Area for camping, day-hikes or multi-day backcountry trips; Blackwater Falls (10 miles north) offers memorable falls, great hikes with long gorge views (Lindy Point a favorite). Even Seneca Rocks and Spruce Knob are only 30 minutes or so away. Possibilities are endless in this neck of the woods. This very weekend was to be the Mountainbike Festival, but due to Covid-19, well you know the rest of that story. The Abe Run Trail was a pleasant trail leaving from the campground.

The campground portion is not expansive but 34 sites are situated in three small loops (see photo of campground map). Primitive tent sites don't have water or electric and parking is roadside but you are within 100 yards of the "Comfort Station." The three "tent only" sites have only been around for a couple years...but sites 1 and 2 are in a nice grassy area away from the RV loop 2. Always verify current rates, but June 18, 2020...mid $30's nightly for nonresidents (WV residents get 30% off). Primitive tent sites were $17 a night.

The Resort Lodge, Golf course, swimming pool and a covered ice skating rink (obviously the last three mentioned being seasonal) were further up the windy park roadway. (See rates on park website).

The campground "Comfort Station," is a restroom/shower/laundry and soda machine building. The gender specific restroom/shower rooms each have two wooden stalled modern facility stools, two shower stalls (men's are separated by a shower curtain, women's by a wall); a separate unisex ADA restroom/shower sits adjacent to the men's and appears newer.

The grounds are well-maintained and manicured as are all WV State Parks. Trails are scattered throughout the park. some are foot traffic only, others permit bicycles. The Back Hollow Trail was predominantly a mown grass trail but occasional wooded sections were rocky two-track. This is Wet Virginia, so expect to experience rain and bring foul weather gear in the summer months. I have mastered the fine art of campsite tarping due to West Virginia camping. It also still gets chilly in these mountains during the early summer months.

Deer meander through the primitive tent sites with their fawns each morning and evening. A kid's playground is situated beside (separated by a field) primitive tent sites 1 & 2.

We spent three days in June and experienced afternoon rain showers daily, but arranged our hikes and bikes around them.

Spruce Knob is the highest point in West Virginia and offers great views. You can drive all the way up to the summit and hike around the small loop trail that leads to the observation tower and then to a small wooden look-out on the far side of the loop. The trail is only a ½ mile and well worth the drive. There is a picnic shelter that has picnic tables, no running water, but there is a pit toilet.

We camped off the Huckleberry Trail, which has lots of camping spots off the trail. The forest is silent and beautiful, looks like it belongs out west in the PNW. The moss-covered ground and rocks make it the perfect oasis for a weekend trip. You can even backpack the trail as it leads down the mountain. This is a must see any time of the year!

West Virginia is a state for anyone who enjoys the outdoors!!!! There are tons of out door activities! We recently camped 3 nights at Canaan Valley! We had a great time! The campsite was full hookup & very inexpensive!!!! Plenty of trees providing shade! There is a little park for the kids, it could use a little TLC! But we didn't spend much time there. There is a huge field that the kids enjoyed kite flying! The staff at the store/check in are very friendly and helpful with area attractions! There is a ton of wildlife in this state park! Deer galore! Someone saw a black bear on the trail (we did not)! Beautiful birds with tons of color! You have access to the pool at the resort (near the hotel)! The bathrooms are less than desirable, but you're good if you have an RV! There are tons of attractions in WV, you may just have to drive. We went to Smoke Hole Caverns and Seneca Rocks for the day, only a 45 minute drive! Well worth it! We will return! Only took off one star b/c of the playground & bathroom! Happy camping!

This review reflect the campsite only, not the surrounding area or Dolly Sods, which is beautiful.

This is the most we have spent on a campsite anywhere ($50/night) and the worst. This is frustrating. The video is if site 3. You will notice the nonstop high-pitched whine in the background. It sounds like a leaf blower but is, in fact, a 24 hour a day pump that is working with the two large, rectangular, man made "ponds" directly behind the site, which I assume have something to do with septic. The ponds are surrounded by a tall chain linked fence with barbed wire on top, so this fence is what you see for you entire field of vision at the tent site. The picnic table and fire ring are down a hill and about 50' from the parking area. That could be overlooked, but there is no gravel pad and the picnic area is bare dirt so muddy in the morning. Thankfully it did not rain. Finally, the state employee here at the state park was not wearing a mask both times that we entered the recreation area to check in, but a few supplies, and then see if another spot was available. Just about everyone camping here is over 65 and West Virginia has a mask mandate. After 3 phone calls and 1 stop in at the lodge, we did get a phone call and one night was refunded back to us, which we did appreciate.

Canaan Valley has 3 loops of sites with hookups as well as a few primitive tent sites. There’s a centrally located bath house with flush toilets and hot showers. Many of the sites are pull-through with parking parallel to the loop road. I was on the last loop in a pull-through site and the main campsite area with picnic table and fire ring were several steps below the parking pad. I was here in April. When I made my reservations, I could only find a site for Friday night, so I went ahead and reserved it, but kept checking back. A few days prior to my arrival, a different site opened for the entire weekend. I couldn’t switch, but I went ahead and reserved the Saturday night at the newly open and then reached out via email to the resort. They were able to change my Friday night reservation to the same site so that I would not have to relocate in the middle of my stay. 

The Canaan Valley area is beautiful and is one of West Virginia’s State Resorts, offering far more than just a campground. Many of the facilities were not yet open fully, but the chairlift to the summit at the ski area was open on weekends. There are a number of nearby parks and forests worth exploring: Blackwater Falls, Dolly Sods Wilderness, Smoke Hole Canyon, Spruce Knob and Seneca Rocks are all within~1 hour drive. You can also stay put at the resort and hike, bike, golf(including mini-golf), swim, geocache, or stargaze. There’s a large open field with a play area near the campground. On of the one clear night I was there, the sky was brilliant. 

The only downside was that there was an event of some sort taking place the morning I left and the racket from the loudspeaker carried over to the campground. I picked up some ice cream at the Purple Fiddle in Thomas, WV on my way to the campground. This place also offers live music. There is an assortment of restaurants in Thomas and Davis.